Flattening bamboo ?

[TribalWind]

is it possible to open up a length of bamboo and flatten it?

it would appear to me that it is.somehow.

when looking at the bamboo surfboards (http://www.bamboosurfboards.com/)
here ,it looks as though theyre literally making "sheets" of bamboo.also looks like they can then bend it around the edges to form the rails. being a surfer myself,this's pretty exciting stuff(not really new to me,but hadnt thought about it for a while)

flattening a piece of bamboo would double the diameter, so 4-1/4 O.D x 11" would make a standard 8-1/2x11 paper size,perfect for alot ot crafts..like scroll-sawing which i love.
or square it up and make tile designs?

so, how is this accomplished, dry heat,steaming and pressing? what's you thinking on it.

[kimart]

Wow...very cool. I'd like to know what process they use to get the piece as wide and thin as the picture shows.

[Mark Meckes]

It's amazing how many ways there are to flatten bamboo!

Here's a several variations
http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/data/520/thumbs/1040217-648F.JPG
Flattenning Bamboo: Green harvest Phy. nuda (http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/showphoto.php?photo=858)

'http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/data/520/thumbs/1040217-678F.JPG
Flattening Bamboo: Concertina Moso (http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/showphoto.php?photo=859)

http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/data/520/thumbs/1040217-646F.JPG
Flattening Bamboo: Phy nigra Henon (http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/showphoto.php?photo=860)

[TribalWind]

hi mark and kimart

those 3 methods 've seen, all variations of the zigzag or accordian cutting so that it will (sort of) lay flat..

i dotn think they are doing it this way,unless they're then using resin to fill in the kerf left my whatever sawblade is used,(splitting i think would not be repeatable enough,) i can only imagine its some hot-as-heck steam-pressing once the pole is cut open on 1 side...would really like to find out! and see if its practical on a small home-workshop scale.

[Mark Meckes]

Hi TribalWind, kimart,
That's about as near as I've got to making bamboo veneer.

The book `Bamboo - The Gift of the Gods by Oscar Hildago has a Chapter about this subject (though no mention of the zig-zag procedure!LOL)

Bamboo - The Gift of the Gods by Oscar Hildago (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=723)
Part 5
Manufacture of Single And Composite Materials
Chapter 9
Manufacture of single bamboo materials
Manufacture of channels strips and splints of the culm
Manufacture of bamboo boards
Rotary and Sliced Bamboo Veneers
- Rotary veneer
- Sliced Veneer
- Sawed Veneer
Internodal Bamboo Veneer Taken From The Surface Of The Culm Wall
- Applications of the Surface Bamboo Veneer
- Manufacture of Plates and Boxes
Internodal Bamboo Veneer taken from the Internal Part of the Culm Wall
- Manufacturing methods and uses

A brief overview is provided with each, also some illustrations and product examples.

[kimart]

How in the heck if its a veneer, do they get the bamboo to go around the radius of the surfboard and still look wrinkle and seam free?
It couldn't be a woven fabric, could it?

[Mark Meckes]

Here's a thread about
Bamboo Veneer Manufacturing (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1848)

Mark

[Mark Meckes]

Hi kimart,
Bamboo Veneer is `grained' and can be easily bent one way, not so easy the other...
Bamboo veneer can be made into very thin sheets (1 -2 mm) 1/8" thickness, using industrial machines, following special procedures, and most importantly, using the right species best suited to make the desired product.

Most of what is available nowadays is industrially produced using technology the was gained to convert trees to plywood.
But there are methods which veneer can be made using hand tools, which I'll get around to discussing sometime if no one else does before.
Mark

[kimart]

Thanks for all the info Mark!

[TribalWind]

awesome stuff !

that's surely how theyre making the surfboards , the grain and seam patterns look identical.

John neptune was making plywood by hand(not sure if only hand-tools)

for making his " udu-boo" bamboo drums. the "skins" were 2-ply bamboo.. he'd make thin squared-up strips then epoxy together.i forget what glue/resin..

this is an interesting topic. glad its finally getting some activity!.
mark,im looking forward to seeing what methods you have for making the veneers in the home shop.
thanks'
matthew

[kimart]

Now that I've had time to think about it...
I wonder if those surfboards got a pinhole or slight crack...wouldn't water creep in and swell the fibers causing a stain or further cracks in the surfboard?
Just wondering...

[TribalWind]

im sure the boards still have a typical marine foam-blank core,that doesnt absorb water,,depending how they treat that veneer stuff it might not either.
i dont think bamboo is all that absorbant when dried anyhow,my flutes dont "water out" much,,no where near how my wooden ones do.

when you get a ding(crack) on a surfboard,we usually let it dry in sun a while then fill it with epoxy resins and then buff it out,

[bambubrasileiro]

Mark,

i am officially now YOUR FAN.

ENOURMOUS quantity of crazy crafts, and this last posting, the bamboo sculpture at the wall, WHAT WAS THAT?????????

CONGRATS

best wishes,

Raphael

[Mark Meckes]

Hi Raphael!
Thanks for writing! ...your pics ...whoeee! It is truly amazing how much bamboo creativity and innovation is happening in Brasil and the Americas.
see Gallery bambubrasileiro (http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=386)


Do you mean this pic?...
http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/data/520/thumbs/1040217-646F.JPG
[http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/showphoto.php?photo=860] Flattening Bamboo: Phy nigra Henon[/url]

It is just an experiment, with many possibilities, and part of my growing collection of unfinished works.

Check out these intriguing ways that bamboo can be flattened, formed and shaped:
http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/data/3019/thumbs/1030907-794.JPG
Photo #19 (http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=322)- one piece bamboo sculptures, which after cutting a round culm, are then made flat, and then `twisted' into shape.

Mark

[Mark Meckes]

The picture below in this post shows another another way you can flatten bamboo!
Here's a link to a thread about `Pressed pulp for bamboo papermaking ' (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1909)

Anyone made a bamboo pulp surfboard yet??

[SoulSailor]

They use a polystyrene blank (not polyurethane). Polystyrene is compatible with epoxy. The bamboo is a turned veneer. They vacum bag with epoxy to go around the rails. I gleaned this information off an interview in the press section of their website. It's pretty cool stuff.

There was another guy out their that used a weave but I have no idea how he did it.

[Mark Meckes]

I went surfing once... on a wooden board that I found on the beach.
A big wave crashed down on me, I held onto the board...and almost impaled myself when board and I stuck into the ocean floor!
I never had an urge to go surfing after that...


Does the veneer need to be perfectly flush-joined or do the pieces overlapped when they are assembled together?

Mark

[SoulSailor]

Well I don't know much more about their process but I imagine it has to be pretty flush or else the voids would have to be filled with epoxy (=pain in the rear and not very structuraly sound,, prone to cracking.) The smoother the base structure the less sanding /filling later. I just built a board out of wood and believe me every little hicup on the surface tanslated to a headache when I was fiberglassing.

On the getting shoved to the bottom of the ocean. That happens to everyone a few times when they start. It's called pearling (pearl-diving). It's probably one of the most unnerving experiences for anyone. Usually it's from being to far forward on the board or paddling too late into a wave. Not fun

Later.
Justin

[Mark Meckes]

It's called pearling (pearl-diving). It's probably one of the most unnerving experiences for anyone. Usually it's from being to far forward on the board or paddling too late into a wave. Not fun

Yup, you said exactly what happened. I should've known there was a name for it!... Actually it was an incredible experience, a rare moment decades ago when my parents rented a vacation home by a desolate beach in Papua New Guinea for a week. 100ft from the house was crashing ocean waves on a sandy beach, and a short distance away was a calm lagoon, thick with coral shells fish, and good for snorkling, if that is what the gadget that lets you breath under water is called. I guess you could make one of these from bamboo.
A teenager... I soaked in a life times worth of experiences in that week, and would probably be still be doing it if I had lived near the beach, (and hadn't done myself in on a big one!).

Ah well, this has more to to with flattening stomachs then flattening bamboo, so, back to topic...

--------------------------

Is the procedure involved similar to marquetry? ie.. a thin layer of veneer made into a close fitting pattern, glued onto the surface, and finished with a protective coating?

If so, there should be a lot of potential here for bamboo marquetry artwork.

Anyone made a true bamboo through and through surfboard?

The scenerio I'm fertively imagining...
- preparing specifically sized bamboo fiber pulp,
- layering it in a mold that contains strips of bamboo, prepared into a honeycomb lattice work...
...then compressing the whole shebang
...then add a bamboo veneer surface ...

-----------------------------

Okay, whadya think about this?... if one were to cook up some bamboo, make up a batch of heavy-duty paper, and apply it, like the veneer, to a polystyrene surfboard blank...would it still be called a bamboo surf board?

Mark

[SoulSailor]

The australian guys use a veneer. If you look closely at the boards you can see the internodal lines crossing the board. I saw a board on the net about 5 years ago that looked like it was woven (if that's what you mean by marquetry). I don't know how he did it but it looked cool. I've been pondering an all bamboo (structure and all) board for some time. What I need to do is just get a bunch of bamboo and work it out.

The problem with paper over foam would be the lack of longitudinal (did I spell that right?) fibers providing strenth along the board. Paper's not uniform in general. I guess you could make it uniform. It'd be cool to make a kind of bamboo pulp foam slurry for the blank.

Random thoughts

Justin

[TribalWind]

cool this got resurrected!

the other thing you want to stay aware of is keeping the weight down,
a solid all-bamboo surfboard could get kinda heavy..which may be OK so long as it's a long board (like the old balsa-wood ones form ages ago)
i've tried surfing those old heavy suckers and its not fun trying to paddle through a full set of crashing waves that are chest-high or bigger!! you can forget about "duck-diving"

[SoulSailor]

I misunderstood marquetry. marquetry is an inlay right? I haven't seen anything like that. There's the woven one and the veneer one. Both use the bamboo for structural reasons instead of fiberglass.

While I'm on this subject. How do they make the bamboo slivers to make the woven mats and walls?

Later
Justin

[SoulSailor]

Man I'm having a reading comprehension problem today. My dog was jumping on my head while I was reading.

The honeycomb weave would have structure instead of random paper pulp orientation. I like that idea.

Weight is always a problem. An all bamboo board would probably have to use some sort of structure to make it hollow, not just solid built up bamboo. Like bamboo plys made into a stringer with rib structure sheathed in bamboo veneer treated with epoxy.

That could be done. It's essentially how I built my wood board you just have the extra processing of flattening and producing bamboo plywood.

Of course that just feels a little over processed to be called a true bamboo surfboard. It's better than bamboo on foam. And better (environmentally) than glass on foam. It would be cool to use the grace and shape of bamboo and integrate it into a whole new design for a surfboard instead of forcing it to be something else. That's just the idealist in me and the solution has not presented itself to me. Baby steps baby steps.

When ever I get into these mental tangents of bamboo boards someone always asks why. Why a bamboo surfboard? To make a better board? To make an environmentally friendly board. My design thoughts always veer to one reason or another. Ultimately my thoughts lead to one final reason and I'm sure this goes for a lot of people. To see if I can.

[Mark Meckes]

Okay, here's my nearly completed bamboo surfboard.
Just need to tack on some bamboo veneer....
http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/data/516/thumbs/1MVC-884F.JPG
Pressed pulp for bamboo papermaking (http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/showphoto.php?photo=866)

HAHA! I'm a real joker today! ... but this unrelated experiment is what prompted this notion.

Here's the thread about Pressed pulp for bamboo papermaking (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=702)

I'm certain a surfboard could be made out of a an epoxy and combined matrix of pulped fiber and strips of bamboo that have been structurally aligned to bear the forces of nature...
However unlike polystryene, which is relatively impervious to water, organic fibers will become saturated unless they are waterproofed...

Here's a couple pics of marquetry (Author Unknown) - not bamboo, but of various wood veneers.
The 3rd pic shows the thickness of the backing board, which is about 1/4" (6-7mm thick) and the marquetry veneer on top, which is approx 1-2 mm thick. (will have to find my calipers for an accurate measurement)...

I have no idea if this type of thing is done on surfboards.

Mark

[SoulSailor]

Unfortunately surfboards are already expensive that type of artwork would skyrocket the price.

The water proofing thing is not a big deal. Polyurathane foam (traditional non-epoxy) boards soak water like a sieve when they get dinged. Polystyrene isn't much better.

[Mark Meckes]

SoulSailor wrote...
"When ever I get into these mental tangents of bamboo boards someone always asks why. Why a bamboo surfboard? To make a better board? To make an environmentally friendly board. My design thoughts always veer to one reason or another. Ultimately my thoughts lead to one final reason and I'm sure this goes for a lot of people. To see if I can."
--------
I like that approach!
Maybe all the bamboo pulp I've cooked up to date would have made one surfboard. Whew! Good this subject came up late in my experiments!
I'll stick to the idea of making a bamboo fiber (paper)-skinned stryo- or something cored surfboard ...
I would need to make a model first.
I could start off small ... how about... bamboo surfboard earrings ...graduate to a bamboo surfboard on a keychain...
then bamboo surfboard - festive tree ornaments.
At this point I could take the leap of making a real bamboo surfboard, one for freddy the frog.
Research on durability, waterproofness, bouyancy, wave action etc could take place in the creek down the back yard. It's a nice place to study nature. I will leave bigger board R&D to surfer dudes!

-----------------

I'm guessing here that surfboard manufacturing is a very competitive industry, what with all the different compositions of materials that can be used...
Sales of bamboo surfboards are probably gained more from eco-friendly marketing and advertising then for any comparatively superior traits that the bamboo posses... just a hunch...

I'm sure if one was to pump a whole lotta bucks into machinery and marketing, a low-budget bamboo surfboard could be produced, but the only artisans involved might be just the designers and the salespersons.

Though there's gotta be a lot of micro-surfboard manufacturing-enterprises out there who have found ways to integrate production work WITH creative artistry.

A big challange in `flattenning' bamboo in whatever way, shape, or form, is to be able to produce a consistent result through the use of specfic tools, techniques and procedures.

Then the question, is... for what, and how to use this flattened bamboo?

Mark

[SoulSailor]

Check these guys out.

http://www.vietnamboats.org/bambooboats.htm

How would you do the flattening for the weave on these boats