Bamboo Zeppelin

[lldt3]

I am working out the feasibility of using bamboo as a skeletal structure for a hybrid airship. Bamboo appeals to me for a number of reasons, not the least of which are:

its versatility
its strength
its ecological impact
its beauty

oh, and it's just plain cool!


I have built a 4-ft model of the hull out of long slender dowels as a proof-of-concept. I'll get a picture, digitize it and upload it.

Meanwhile, I have a lot of questions.

1) Is there a species whose diameter stays fairly constant at around 3/8" to 1/2 " for six to eight feet?

2) Has anyone worked with shaping bamboo via a "steam cabinet"? One of my designs uses a _lot_ of circles.

3) I need to terminate the poles in neat triangular junctions. Think : TV tower. However, this truss configuration needs to accept a "skin" and be fairly smooth (aerodynamic) , so lashing is not an option. One idea I'm going to try is to seat the pole into a short length of metal tube. Perhaps I will also have a bit of rod inside the pole to stiffen and secure it. I am speaking from very little experience here, so any input would be welcome!

Thanks!

[Mark Meckes]

lldt3, Wow what a great idea!
I saw a TV program a while back on the history and development of airships...very interesting!, though I don't remember the details. If you ever feel so inclined, post any links to, or literature references about this topic.
This is the first that this topic has been addressed here, and very interesting directions it could lead to!
Please go ahead and post pics in the Gallery, and copy and paste the URL address link into your posts. (If you need any assistance let me know)
Regarding your questions...
1) Is there a species whose diameter stays fairly constant at around 3/8" to 1/2 " for six to eight feet?

There are really quite a lot of bamboo species that would fit these requirement, all having varied structural properties, ...this would need more extensive research...
One species that is the most commonly available (in the US)
is the imported `Tonkin Cane' ( It was formally called by the name Arundinaria amabilis, but was recently changed (by taxonomists) to the name Pseudosasa amabilis.
A large portion of the imports of Tonkin Cane are used by the nursery and floristry industry for tree, garden and floral stakes, and is very economical to purchase in bulk.
However, generally, quality is very medium grade, as fishing flyrod makers (who use this species because of it's relative straightness, and non-prominent nodes) attest that they have to sort through many pieces to find a few suited towards their specialized needs.
There are (a very few) domestic sources for poles of this species, and there are other potentially suited species as well, but as mentioned above, the biggest challange is to find a source that provides a consistency in grade and dimensions.
Getting a supplier to do the sorting for you usually raises the cost considerably, and the best/ least expensive approach may be to experiment with Tonkin Cane from an importer, and if your project `gets off the ground', ya never know...there may be a supplier that would sponsor your endeavor. Working up from models is a very good approach!

2) Has anyone worked with shaping bamboo via a "steam cabinet"? One of my designs uses a _lot_ of circles.
Here's a link to the thread:Steambending equipment/ techniques (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=566)

I have been recently `loaned' an 8 long X approx 1ftX1ft foot steam box (propane heated), and am really looking forward to experimenting with this process, though I do not have much time to do so this month.(Jan,04). It's high up on my TO-DO list and will keep you informed as to progress..... If anyone else can provide input to this process, please chime in! (May be best to start a new thread on this very extensive subject, and we can put the link to it here).
Question 3) this is very a extensive Q which I don't have time to get into right now... any others? thoughts?

I'd be very interested in hearing hearing of potential applications for Bamboo Zepplins...theoretical, pleasurable and practicable!
Thanks for writing!
Mark

[lldt3]

I have posted a drawing illustrating the cane-to-cane splice I spoke of before.

The Bamboo Zeppelin idea has "runners" which go the length of the ship (over 100 ft.).

Drawing of bamboo splice idea
http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/data/1/thumbs/2727scan002-med.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/workshop/showphoto.php?photo=807)

I know it's not art, but does it look structurally sound?

- Lee

[Mark Meckes]

Hi Lee,
It is certainly possible to join bamboo end to end by using wood or metal dowels, though the biggest challenge would be to have precisely matching diameters and wall thicknesses, ie that the inside diameter for both pieces was also equal.
This could be compensated by using shimmies to insert into gaps, and shaving off any excess outer diameter.
Another way for inserts is to use two half-round slightly tapered dowels that when inserted would also act as shimmies.
Another approach would be to follow the experience of basket-makers who are able to make very sturdy `vessels' using bamboo splits rather then in the round, and only use bamboo in the round where structural integrity is paramount.

I would imagine making an airship as lightweight as possible, yet as strong as needed, will be one of your biggest challenges.
Bamboo is certainly a viable material to use, though unless the material has been selected to optimum grade and dimensional specifications, there would need to be a certain amount of `leeway' in it's practical construction.
One reason why people are drawn to using synthetics and milled lumber is because of it's uniformity.
But if your design provides for some flexibility in construction, then forming and fitting the parts together won't be such a pain in the neck!
Mark

[lldt3]

Thanks for the feedback!

One crucial requirement for the Bamboo Zeppelin concept is that it be build-able out of off-the shelf materials, as inexpensively as possible.

The bamboo "basket" concept has been used with great success by balloonists. I think that the hull would be too wide and thus the weave would be too loose for this, but who knows?

Another idea I have is for the ends of the cane to be inserted into tubes. Mark Mortimer has done some work like this and has posted pictures in the gallery under the "Working with bamboo" section.

The bottom of the ship is essentially a catamaran. This is where the heavier structure would be. The rest of the hull just has to keep its shape.

I'm trying to imagine where I'd get my hands on a lot of long bamboo splits to experiment. Maybe a window shade?

[TribalWind]

wow, that's some undertaking, sounds like a Great project

Thanks so much for the link to the boat-builders site, i've been dreaming about building a nice 2-3person sailable boat,but still paddle-able like a kayak. thats light and small enough to toss atop my ford explorer to bring camping and quick daytrips.
i was going to do a plywood design i'd seen,,till i saw the skeletal ultralight boats he's making !

i'll definitely have to start experimenting with bending un-split poles and see what my limits would be,
maybe even lining the inside with splits a bit spaced (or not spaced)
if only it were warmer out now!


re: the zeppelin idea.. i came across this site,with bamboo airships,including a zeppelin design.

http://www.versteegde.nl/Airship/

[lldt3]

Thanks for the link to the other bamboo airship!

I am not surprised that someone else has gotten the idea. Perhaps a lot of people are starting to wake up to the possibilities. Maybe we are just hitting the level of the 100th monkey.

I only had a moment to look at the site. Tonight's "my night", so while my wife is caring for the boys I'll look at it more closely. I think that there's some way to get a translation of the pages. The name babelfish comes to mind.

The boat site offers a video on building a boat, which is well worth the money. I've watched it several times.

The German bamboo zeppelin appears, at first glance, to be bigger than my initial concept and more conventional. I hope to carry at most three people and to land on water.

Thanks again!

[Mark Meckes]

Hi Lee,
Here's the link you mentioned above...
`Structural connectors used with bamboo' (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=547) that show some ideas/possibilities.
We'll add more to that thread as we find them.

BTW an amazing aspect of Antoon's art is that it is all held together with elastic bands! ... though his installations are temporary and are not meant to be permanent fixtures.

If the airship is made bouyant by gasses, if there a formula that tells you how much the maximum weight of the structure can be?

An interesting approach could be to know what is the max amount of bamboo as per weight that can used to build this with, and then set upon finding the lightest/strongest truss system and weave pattern that can be used to serve structural function.
It's `skin' would play an important role too...just like in making the paper/split bamboo lanterns, whereas the lantern is built around a collapsible wooden mould, and after the bamboo strips have been applied and the paper is glued on to the strips, the mould is collapsed and removed.

Now, you could make the skin of the airship out of bamboo paper too, but that would be a whole new set of challanges!
...It would be a lot easier to go with a synthetic covering, though if you crashed it wouldn't be biodegradeable like bamboo paper would!
Mark

[antoon versteegde]

Hi folks,

Here an update about the bamboo zeppelin and the 100th monkey:
We are going to build a 300 meter airship, formed like a banana.
See for more information: http://www.geostationarybananaovertexas.com/

Best regards,
Antoon Versteegde
http://versteegde.nl/News/AgZeppelin.gif

[lldt3]

I laughed out loud! Good thing it's early here and I'm the only one in his cublicle.

Please keep me posted on this.

[sound world]

Two great ideas!
It's worth looking at Antoon's site,especially the pics.I met Antoon at the Euro Bamboo Symposium in 2000 and helped build one of his amazing giant bamboo wheels.A brilliant collective happening!

[Mark Meckes]

Very enlightening!
The Geostationary Banana Over Texas (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2005) - Art intervention project has been posted in the Bamboo News and events forum to give it some more exposure.

Good to hear from all you again!

Lee ... How's your model coming along?

Sound World ... I'm green with envy!

Did you take any pics? The Gallery here feels incomplete without some representation of yours and Antoon's works.
Please contact me if you're interested, otherwise we'll make do by just sending folks to your sites.

Antoon ... you know that I've always hoped that you (and other artists) would get more venues in the US to present your artistic creations.
Some years ago I tossed around the idea of the American Bamboo Society and it's chapters chipping in and also seeking other sponsors to raise necessary funds, possibly to arrange a US tour, but sadly they have been more consumed in keeping afloat of their own troubled waters.
I've considered other possibilities of methods for raising funds independently ...
In reality, just dealing with technical behind the scenes issues of developing this site and progressing forward in small steps takes about all the energy I personally can muster up. :(

If there's interest in discussing this further we can move this topic to the workshop discussion forum ... otherwise ... back to airships!
----------
I saw an interesting program on the telly last night about different types of balloons and what lead to the recent ultimate challenge to circulmvent (;)) the globe ...
Which leads me to this question ...
What are the benefits to having a fixed frame airship to an inflatable one?

---------
Here's a gizmo that I accidently stumbled upon while playing around with bamboo.
It is one single continuous piece of bamboo cut out and twisted into the shape of a wheel, and held snugly in place around a bamboo axle.
http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/data/3019/medium/1030907-794.JPG (http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=322)

It is a surprisingly very strong structure.
I put aside this experiment, but would like to tinker around with it some more but having time strictly for play is not easy to find.

Mark

[sound world]

I like the look of your wheel Mark! I can't believe that's one piece of bamboo! (And I'm also not at all surprised that it's strong :) )
Yes,working on Antoon's wheel was great,especially when we raised it up,really inspiring.The kind of thing that gives you hope for the future of mankind!
I must dig out some of the pics I took...