newbie looking for info re: carbon fiber

[StarTux]

Hello All!
I'm here in search of answers to questions I've had floating around in my head for awhile. I've done a little research on the positives of bamboo and I am wondering if it is possible to use in a structural setting as a inexpensive replacement to carbon fiber. I am looking to see if the weight saving of bamboo can come close to the rigidity and strength of carbon fiber. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated...Thanks!

SatrTux

[CaroleMeckes]

Hi Startux,
I am new to Carbon Fiber - thanks for introducing it to me.

How would you turn bamboo into a 'carbon fiber' product?
Carole

[StarTux]

Carole, thank you for answering.
Carbon fiber is a product similar to fiberglass in that it is strong and resists flexing because of its combination with epoxy/chemicals to increase its rigidity. Carbon fiber is incredibly strong, while being incredibly lightweight. There is a major drawback - it is fairly expensive as a composite material.
What I am trying to find out is if natural bamboo, prepared correctly (depending on the methods) can be as strong and light as carbon fiber, yet less expensive or not. There are so many questions before a decision is made about the project, but every journey begins with the first steps.
Anyhoohow, thank you for your input.

[CaroleMeckes]

How is carbon fiber made?
What is it made from?

[StarTux]

Dear Carole,

This is the wikipedia explaination of carbon fiber:

n.
An extremely strong thin fiber made by pyrolyzing synthetic fibers, such as rayon, until charred. It is used to make high-strength composites.The carbon atoms are bonded together in microscopic crystals that are more or less aligned parallel to the long axis of the fiber. The crystal alignment makes the fiber very strong for its size. Several thousand carbon fibers are twisted together to form a yarn, which may be used by itself or woven into a fabric.[1] Carbon fiber has many different weave patterns and can be combined with a plastic resin and wound or molded to form composite materials such as carbon fiber reinforced plastic (also referenced as carbon fiber) to provide a high strength-to-weight ratio material. The density of carbon fiber is also considerably lower than the density of steel, making it ideal for applications requiring low weight.[2] The properties of carbon fiber such as high tensile strength, low weight, and low thermal expansion make it very popular in aerospace, civil engineering, military, and motorsports, along with other competition sports. However, these enhanced features make it relatively expensive when compared to similar materials such as fiberglass or plastic. Carbon fiber is very strong when stretched or bent, but weak when compressed or exposed to high shock (eg. a carbon fiber bar is extremely difficult to bend, but will crack easily if hit with a hammer).

I hope this helps.

StarTux

[RaptorWing]

As you were saying StarTux, Every Journey begins with the first steps. I have had some experience in various composites, mostly fiberglass in boat building and repair... mostly repair. I've been curious myself about the characteristics of bamboo fibers when bound with a resin. In what type of structure were you trying to replace carbon fiber? A load-bearing wall or post of sorts? or as a cloth-type skin laminate? I've seen (on this site or linked to from here) structures made using whole bamboo stalks (culms) in load bearing applications. such as bike frames or boat masts. Other 'skins' have been made using a veneering lathe to produce very thin sheets, similar to individual layers in plywood. These were then used as a sheet laminating material in surfboards. What I would like to find and test myself is a processed bamboo cloth or fiber mat style to test its properties when wrapped around more complex forms and used as a laminate that way.

Sorry I'm a relative bamboo newbie myself and don't have any definitive answers, but maybe Carole could take these descriptions of carbon fiber composite uses and direct you better in the direction you're heading. I do know it's light and strong, though probably not quite as much so as CF. Good luck.

[RaptorWing]

the bamboo papermaking and pulp discussion. Instead of a woven cloth, you'd probably end up with something akin to the fiberglass 'mat' made of bamboo fibers.

[StarTux]

RaptorWing, I appreciate your reply. It sounds if we both have similar uses if not the same goals. I am looking to produce a "mule" test bed vehicle that is electric powered using recycled and easily obtained parts. Once developed, the plans would be documented and published on the web as an open source project for anyone to access and improve upon (hopefully). Cost is a major factor, hence the examination of bamboo as a product to be used more in the vehicle manufacture process. The actual uses would be bamboo with resin epoxy as a structural member with possible reinforcing of rebar, as well as moldable body parts. The end result would result in a lightweight ecofriendly vehicle that has safety considerations as a primary goal.

Like I said, this is all a fact gathering process, and I'll look into the suggestions you made. Thanks Again!!!!

Mel

[RaptorWing]

Yeah Mel, similar ideas. I'm thinking more along the lines of small boats (canoes, kayaks) rather than the mule, but that seems like a worthy idea. I've also read that one of the Japanese auto manufacturers has used not only the bamboo fiber, but also has come up with a 'green resin' formulation using compounds from bamboo for bio-plastics. I haven't been able to find anything on the specifics of this process yet, though. While a 'green product' is good, What I have in mind is a renewable/sustainable small business model, from site produced materials to energy to product... as it is now, I'll be happy to finish my somewhat standard-process fiberglass/kevlar/CF canoe mold to generate just enough income to quit my full time job and build a small shop to research these things.