Is it P. heterocycla or P. heteroclada (Moso)

[karlderrick]

I've seen both P. Heterocycla and P. Heteroclada used for "Moso" on this website. Which is it?
Thanks

[Mark Meckes]

Hi Karl,
Firstly, let's hope that those in charge of determining the name of a bamboo are finished with these two bamboos as they have had a number of changes over time.

Re: P. heterocylca
(... as far as I can figure out ...)
The accepted name for Moso is now Phyllostachys edulis though it has also been known as P. pubescens and P. heterocycla var. pubescens

See pics of Phyllostachys edulis (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showgallery.php?cat=528) at Bamboo Flora

(You mentioned you were growing this bamboo in another post, and if you have pics you can upload them into this gallery.)

For more info about Sorting Plants Names -(Phyllostachys)- see:
Phyllostachys edulis (http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Phyllostachys.html#edulis) (MULTILINGUAL MULTISCRIPT PLANT NAME DATABASE)

Note that the Tortoise Shell Bamboo is now called Phyllostachys edulis 'Heterocylca'.
See photo (http://www.kyoto.zaq.ne.jp/dkakd107/E2-e.html) at Kyoto Rakusai Bamboo Park- Japan]


Re: P. heteroclada
This was formerly known a Phyllostachys purpurata 'Straightstem'
See pics of Phyllostachys heteroclada (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showgallery.php?cat=515) at BambooFlora

Mark

[TexasGrower]

Phyllostachys heteroclada is better known as "water bamboo".

http://www.bamboogarden.com/Phyllostachys%20heteroclada.html

Phyllostachys pubescens is moso.

[Mark Meckes]

The name Water Bamboo is somewhat misleading, suggesting that it can actually grow in water, whereas the air canals in it's rhizomes only makes it more tolerant to heavy moisture-laden soil. It's probably more tolerant to longer periods of riverbank flooding as well, whereas most other Phyllostachys species croak if submerged more than a few days.

The following text from the above site is also somewhat misleading:
There is a cultivar of Water Bamboo called P. heteroclada 'Solid Stem' which, amazingly, has a solid cane!
It is only the bottom couple of feet of the culm that is solid, or nearly so. Then the culm wall thickness gradually becomes thinner, ie, the inside hole diameter becomes larger, and the greater proportion of the culm is not solid.

This link to sorting bamboo names > Phyllostachys heteroclada (http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Phyllostachys.html#heteroclada) has the Chinese names for this, but I don't have the English translation, though it would be interesting to know what they call it.

Interesting that this site gives the English common name for P. heteroclada as Fishscale Bamboo ... I'll guess that this is in reference to the fishscale appearance of the sheaths on the young emerging shoots.

http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/515/thumbs/PhetE9BGA930601-6.jpg (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=2038)

hmmm . ... I noticed that it shows P. congesta as a synonym of P. heteroclada whereas P.congesta is a different species now called P. atrovaginata ... which isn't even in the list of species shown on the sorting bamboo names list. :confused:
It's shoots have even more more of a fishcale appearance ...
http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/616/thumbs/PatroFRPA020623-203.JPG (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=3295)
... so I'm wondering if they have these 2 species mixed up?

All I can say is that I've seen 'em both close up and they are definitely 2 birds of different feathers.
... though P. atrovaginata aka P. congesta also has air canals in it's rhizomes and is more moisture tolerant.

Phyllostachys pubescens is moso.

Agreed. I think it was 2 or 3 years ago that the bigwig name sayers changed it to Phyllostachys edulis though many in the trade still call it P. pubescens

Maybe we should call it Muddy Waters Bamboo ;)

Mark

[TexasGrower]

It's still known as water bamboo ;-), especially in China, which is where I got mine from.

[Mr.Madake]

Not to be a painful person, sorry.. I happen to know (from living in Japan) that P.Edulis/P.Pubscens does not like it's feet wet, and it only grows in areas that have good drainage and access to nutrition from agricultural land. In Japan it is seen on the highly fertile sides of hills and more commonly it is seen growing near rice harvesting areas. the rich soil leeches some of it's nutrients to the bamboo.
Moso means hairy.. there isn't anything that implies "water" in the three Kanji that makes up it's name.

Mo= hair so= origin/essence/denomination (chiku/take)= has the meaning of bamboo

Mosochiku/Mosotake both are the Japanese name for P.Edulis/P.Pubscens
The meaning of the 3 chinese characters (Kanji) mean the same thing in both Madarin and Catonese
孟宗竹

　The shoots on Heterocyla/Edulis are VERY unique and do not resemble heteroclada at all, they look more like a black bamboo shoot sort of.. also the culms on Edulis have downy soft fur on them when they are new.

[Mark Meckes]

Thanks for the info Mr.Madake!
Yes indeed P. heterocycla, aka P. edulis and P. heteroclada are quite different looking for Phyllostachys species.

hetero = other, different ... but I don't think taxonomists used this phrase to differentiate between these two species - it's easy enough to know they are different ;)

P. heterocycla = different cycle? ... shooting season?

P. heteroclada = different clothed? ... sheath distinction?

Mark

Not to be a painful person, sorry.. I happen to know (from living in Japan) that P.Edulis/P.Pubscens does not like it's feet wet, and it only grows in areas that have good drainage and access to nutrition from agricultural land. In Japan it is seen on the highly fertile sides of hills and more commonly it is seen growing near rice harvesting areas. the rich soil leeches some of it's nutrients to the bamboo.
Moso means hairy.. there isn't anything that implies "water" in the three Kanji that makes up it's name.

Mo= hair so= origin/essence/denomination (chiku/take)= has the meaning of bamboo

Mosochiku/Mosotake both are the Japanese name for P.edulis/P.pubscens
The meaning of the 3 chinese characters (Kanji) mean the same thing in both Madarin and Catonese
???

?The shoots on Heterocyla/Edulis are VERY unique and do not resemble heteroclada at all, they look more like a black bamboo shoot sort of.. also the culms on Edulis have downy soft fur on them when they are new.

[Mr.Madake]

I wouldn't look too much into the latin as you likely to confuse yourself.
Heteroclada grows in wet-ish soil and is no way close to classing as a timber bamboo.

Heterocycla/Edulis.. well you already know about this now..

BTW: For those of you growing this bamboo in the PNW, DO NOT give up on it, apparently on one of the other forums a fellow in Washington state has figured out a way of breaking smaller divisions of moso out of dormancy by using high nitrogen fertilizers/"crap" with heavy grass clippings/mulch.
He has got 1" x 15ft culms in a fraction of the normal growth time.