Phyllostachys edulis (pubescens) - New planting from Seeds - PA USA

[cngodles]

Finally, after months of interest, I finally have a third species of bamboo.

My Moso seeds, exactly 20 days after planting, have finally popped up two sprouted. I know this is Moso for sure, because I planted these in clean sand. And for anyone who is interested in how to, I used play sand.

Update: 20 minutes later I found that a second one was also coming up. It was only 1/16th of an inch above the sand, but it's on it's way.

2006

MAY
30 - #1 & #2 of 8 sprouts

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/moso01.jpg
Sprout 1

31 - #3 of 8 sprouts. Sprout 1 is 5/8" tall.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/moso02.jpg
Sprouts 1 and 2

JUNE

01 - Leaving for Florida
05 - Coming home from Florida.
06 - Got home at 2AM. There are now 4 shoots. The largest two have sprouted a single leaf. They are about 2 inches high I would estimate.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_03.jpg

07 - nothing new to report
08 - Went thorugh my 8 moso seeds. 4 have sprouted. I gave one to my mother. I dug up the other 4, 2 of them had rooted, one looked like it was just about to grow a root (little bubble structure on the large end of the seed), and the other looked plain. I planted one the the shoots into a plastic pot with no drainage. I planted 2 in ceramic pots with drainage. I planted the 2 rooted seeds in with the two ceramic plantings. I left the 2 least active seeds in the tray.

09 - Pictures of 4 of my 5 total Moso sprouts (#6 is at my moms).

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso01.jpg

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso02.jpg

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso03.jpg

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso04.jpg

14 - Lots of the Sand shoots are coming up in the humidity dome. Soon I'll have enough that I can start giving them to people to try out.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso05.jpg

JULY

13 - New Picture

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso06.jpg

19 - These are going in pots very soon as you can see some of them are suffering from the heat and lack of soil. My 3 potted seedlings are doing fine.

September

14 - How the Blue Potted one has done...

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso08.jpg

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso11.jpg

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso10.jpg

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso09.jpg

Here is a foam cooler made into a planter with 6 different moso plantings in it. I don't know where I'm putting it in the winter time.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso12.jpg

October

22 - I moved the large foam container inside (And all of the other moso) about 2 weeks ago. They went from full sun most of the day to a window on the North East side of the house. The leaves since have been a light green color compared the the dark green leaves from outside. I'm not sure if this is because it's stressed or it's lightening it's leaves for the reduced sunlight. I myself have never noticed a plant before bamboo changing it's leaves for the lighting conditions. Amazing.

24 - For the past 7-10 days, the two moso that are on a South facing window are shooting again. The blue plastic pot has 3 new shoots, the glazed pot has two. I've finally rulled the other one dead, so I will be replacing it soon with something else. I'll photograph it and post when I pull it out. On the new shoots, they all appear to be coming from almost a root ball in the middle of the plant. They are shooing at a 45 degree angle too.

First we will start with that box. Lots of new growth. The two largest leaves are what have lightened. They are also weaker looking.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/library/19_20061024_boo_05.jpg

Here are the plants against their window showing the condensation. As you can tell, that one on the left is probably done.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/library/18_20061024_boo_04.jpg

Picture showing the striping on the leaves. This looks really nice when in full sun.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/library/17_20061024_boo_03.jpg

The three new shoots. They all appear to be coming from the same spot.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/library/16_20061024_boo_02.jpg

A close up of the shoot base. One big ball of roots.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/library/15_20061024_boo_01.jpg

November

01 - I pulled the dead Moso out today. The leaves were still green in color, but it's definatly dead. This shows early root development.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/library/35_bamboo_moso_dead.jpg

26 - Just a glancing view out the moso window.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/library/53_moso_2006.jpg

2007

January

16 - What a wonderful 8 months it's been. Gotta love the size of this plant. My first pictures, back in May of 2006, that is it as a baby.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso30.jpg

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso31.jpg

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/bambooshoot_moso32.jpg

February

24 - I transplanted my two largest edulis (Moso) into one large pot. They were drying out faster and faster, so I knew they needed more dirt to hold more water. I planted both of them together. I'm sure I'll be seperating both of them in 12 months {Predicition!}. The entire transplant thread can be found here (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2368), however, here are a couple pictures.

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/2007/20070224_transplant_06.jpg

http://www.15656.com/media/images/forum/2007/20070224_transplant_07.jpg

March

26 - Yesterday I noticed for the first time that one of my new shoots has 2 side branches. When the seedlings were younger, I had a case where once small shoot had one small branch. This is the first time any new shoot has had a branch since then, and it has two of them. I just noticed yesterday, but I think the shoot started 2 weeks ago.

May

01 - The tallest one in the double planting pot is now over 3 feet tall. Amazing. I might place this outside for the summer. I'm not going to like doing it, because it's been spoiled with the mild temperatures and window sun for so long, but I'd like to at least make it a bit hardy. For the long haul, this one is going to be a house plant. It's really amazing how different it even since the pot transplant. Amazing plant, highly reccomend if you can plant some from seeds.

[Mark Meckes]

September 14 - How the Blue Potted one has done...
Cool! Very healthy leaves on this plant.
If your camera can do this, can you get a closeup of the leaves sometime, with their bristley sheaths?

[TexasGrower]

Where did you get the seeds? My supplier has disappeared.

[cngodles]

I used http://www.banana-tree.com/

They just sell Moso, Hetroclada, and some Indian Variety.

How are those pictures mark? I made the close up 1200px (down from 2000px plus) for you. What exactly do those do? Why does bamboo have those?

[TexasGrower]

If you're near a walmart, go to their gardening section and get some of their self watering pots. Just don't use the smallest 99c ones, they are useless.

[Mark Meckes]

Nice pics Clint!
The splayed bristles protruding from the leaf sheaths are called oral setae.
On culm sheaths, they are usually attached to auricles or ear-like appendages on each side of the sheath at the base of the sheath blade.
The fringed portion, clinging to the stem, shown between the oral setae is called a ligule.
All bamboos don't have oral setae but I think most do to some degree and variation.

What exactly do those do? Why does bamboo have those?
I don't know, but I'll make a guess ..
... As an evolutionary defense mechanism against against marauding insects or hungry herbivores?
... To attract dew and collect raindrops to provide moisture?
... Because they look cool and nature extols in it's beauty?

BTW, I think your supplier has gone bananas on the potential (15") diameter of the Moso (http://www.banana-tree.com/Product_Detail~category~19.0~Product_ID~19044.cfm)

The following claims to be the current record holder for biggest diameter ...
Dendrocalamus sinicus - SW China
http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/708/thumbs/430Dsinicus.jpg (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=3249)
Diameter - 36 cm / 14 inches

Most references give Moso a max diameter of 7-8"
I saw some in Louisiana with diameters of around 6" ...
http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/528/thumbs/PedAvLA050225-672.jpg (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=2131)

Mr. Madake says he saw some Moso in Japan to 10" diameter.
See Thread: Phyllostachys edulis var Tatejima (P. e. 'Nabeshimana') (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2143)

Mark

[cngodles]

Oh yeah, I never believed that for a second. I'm always exagerating the cold hardiness, not the height and diameter.

[Mark Meckes]

Yep, as long as I'm wearing a warm jacket, toasty mittens and thermal underwear, I don't mind subzero temperatures either ;)

[Mark Meckes]

October
22 - I moved the large foam container inside (And all of the other moso) about 2 weeks ago. They went from full sun most of the day to a window on the North East side of the house. The leaves since have been a light green color compared the the dark green leaves from outside. I'm not sure if this is because it's stressed or it's lightening it's leaves for the reduced sunlight. I myself have never noticed a plant before bamboo changing it's leaves for the lighting conditions. Amazing.

Often in the autumn the the leaves furthest away from the growing tip may yellow and drop off. I guess this is a seasonal trigger the bamboo uses to direct stored food to it's newest leaf growth.
In climates where bamboo remains evergreen throughout the winter, it again drops some of the back leaves as new leaves emerge in the spring.

Also bring the plants indoors with less light will cause new growth to be a lighter green.

Mark

[cngodles]

Yes, I was talking about the new growth. It's very light. The old growth remained its dark green. I'm guessing I didn't note that correctly.

When I transplanted all of that yellow-groove over the summer, just about every plant replaced 60% of its leaves noticeable days after planting.

I have them all mulched in with about 4-6 inches of cut grass right now. I've got high hopes for the winter. I think last years barely hanging on culms was a result of planting them in mid October. I'm looking outside now, and its 32 degrees with flurries. Yeah, I planted quite late.

I'm not sure if I want to plant the Moso next spring or wait another year. The 2 oldest plants are producing new shoots right now. One is going from 3 shoots to 6; the other is going from 2 to 4. They get about a foot tall now. There is still about 6 months of growing before spring starts.

I've got three (well two, I suspect the light green colored one that never got a second shoot is dead) on a South facing window upstairs. It's neat that they have very large leaves and they have them pressed up to the glass as to get the maximum amount of sun. You can see great leaf detail when the sun is out. As a plus, the moisture that evaporates from their pots condensates onto the glass and in return wets the leaves.

They will need transplanted soon. They have medium sized pots.

Can you remember being this excited your first year with bamboo? I swear, I'm borderline obsessed. I really can't wait until I have to spend more time controlling my bamboo and less time babying it. I'll be even happier if I can grow the moso here in PA to heights greater than 10 feet.

Also, two other small updates. The Fargesia Rufa is doing well. It's still shooting dispite the 28 - 30 degree weather we've had. Like most of my outdoor bamboo, it got a couple yellow leaves, but that's about it. The Hetroclada that I planted outside directly from a seedling early in the summer is also baring the cold well.

[cngodles]

Hey Mark,

How does it look at 8 months since sticking the seed in the sand?

Now I'll have to resist the urge to plant this outside. I'm going to make one or two a potted house plant, so I think this may be a canidate.

[Mark Meckes]

Very impressive Clint!
It is interesting that as Moso culms get larger, their leaves become smaller, and have probably the smallest leaves of any Phyllostachys species, even though they grow the largest culms of any Phyllostachys species.
And yet when they start out as seedlings their leaves are large!

Mark

[Whatever]

Hope you don't mind me digging up an old thread. Ive read perlite and peat moss works well but this time of year perlite is a bit hard to find so I'm planning on trying your sand method with my moso seeds that should be here later in the week.

I do have a couple questions though. Did you soak or prep your seeds before planting? Ive read they should be rinsed then soaked in a salt water solution then rinsed again. Did you use anything special for dirt?

I'm new to bamboo let alone from seed. Keep up the good work!

[TexasGrower]

Soaking your seeds drastically improves chance of successful germination.

[nomauer00]

I got this off of the German seller on e-bay and it has worked for my Moso.
Use kitty litter, no perfumed, no clumping, just the plain old cheapest kitty
litter they have. Fill your germination container with it and let it sit in a container with feeding and water (assuming you have holes on the bottom of your germination container) solution. Use regular mixture of water and miracle grow or whatever. They also said you can wrap it up in a zip lock after you get it all soaked up and planted. I did some in a zip lock and some not. This Moso sprouted in 10 days and was the first of all my pots (50) to sprout. I only did kitty litter for 3 of them. Kitty litter is germ free and can be used on all seeds according to them. I also mix a very strong solution of miracle grow and water (much, much stronger) and pour it in a 5 gallon pail with 1/4 kitty litter in it and mix it up so you get a damp heavy coarse sand texture and I mix it in with my soil I use for planting. It is a great, cheap way to enrich your soil. My camera is not too good. Lee P.S. They said soaking with this method was not necessary P.S.
#2 the other pots you can kind of see in the background on the left photo with nothing yet.

[TexasGrower]

They said soaking with this method was not necessary.



Soaking is never "necessary", but it drastically improves the chances... no matter what germination method you use.

[Jerez]

:)
Hi! I live in Mukilteo WA near Puget Sound. (zone 5 I think, this close to water) I have always liked bamboo, but never had any. Now I need bamboo because I have lost my privacy in my yard here. I am looking for a timber bamboo that will thrive here quickly..

I'd love to hear any suggestions, see links for bamboo; seed or plants, free bamboo, or what ever anyone has to offer.
I'll be hanging out by my mailbox waiting.. :p

many thanks....J

[Jerez]

BTW, loved these tips on starting seeds,, very cool, love the photos..I have play sand just waiting..

[Kingz]

Im gathering up my seeds now, Got some already, These will be planed on family land in AL zone 8a. As for starting out, does the play sand relly work that good, and did you do anthing to the sand other then just water. Im trying to figure out the best way to plant allot of seeds.

also did you keep track of the watering schedual and how much.

I figure Mid march, end of march will be the best time to plant the seeds

[Scott W]

Kingz,

Play sand is fine. I used both that and a 50/50 mixture of peat and perlite when germinating my moso and strictus seeds. As for watering schedule, there wasn't one at first since the mixture was premoistened and covered. Once they started growing though we misted a couple times per day after removing the cover, though not sure if that was completely necessary.

Some lessons learned from my experience. Moso roots grow long quickly and the tender new seedlings do not like to be transplanted, so start them in a container that they can be in for a while to reduce transplant shock. Even better if you can afford it start them in the Jiffy pellets. We planted several thousand and in the end wound up with only a few hundred...mostly due to transplanting, the harsh Florida weather, and the fact that we underestimated just how fast those seedlings would grow!

If you havn't planted them yet, plant them now and get those babies growing!

[Kingz]

Thanks for the advice, I was about to start planting in the next week (two weeks out the most) after hearing about the transplanting problem, I plan on now using a larger starting pot/planter, I have a friend that owns a commersical hole sale nursery, I see about getting what I need from him, since he probably can get it cheaper then me.

These are what you are talking about correct
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/images/jiffy-peat-pots-dd.jpg
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CN%2DJP (http://http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CN%2DJP)
I was thinking about going with something 3x3 round or a 4x4 round


there also these fiber ones
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/images/fiber-grow-pots-dd.jpg
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CN%2DFGP
these also are good?

whats the major differance between the two, and what size pot would you start out now if you where doing it again.

Also with thise, would I need a plast pot to keep them together??? Im new to this if you have not notice.

when did you remove the cover from the plant. I think about buying some heating mat/wire to run under the pot/planters to keep the temp up, good or bad idea???


Also since Im building a small green house just for this, I would not have to cover the planst as long as I keep the green house humidty and temp up, correct, if so after germation start and plants spout what would you move the temp down to and humidty to??


I know have about a 1000 seeds, after this year test run Ill be trying for 30,000+ seeds.

[Scott W]

I didn't remove the cover completely, but when the tallest ones started hitting the top I propped it up so that there would still be some humidity in the dome yet start hardening them. You could also try some completely uncovered.

If you go with the fiber pots, I would go deeper, not wider.

I've never used the Jiffy pots, but if you went with the Jiffy pellets, go with the forestry ones as seen here http://stuewe.com/products/jiffy.html . The pellets fit into the 10x20 flats, which are what I use for a lot of my seed germination, and you can get a "greenhouse dome" that fits over it. Very convenient.

As for heating mat, I germinated all of them indoors at a constant 75 degrees, so I didn't need it.

Now if these are all grown in a greenhouse, I would think you wouldn't need the dome or heating mats.

[CaroleMeckes]

Years ago I heard a talk by a well known nursery man and he said "bottom heat" was very important in starting the seedlings and young plants in a green house situation.

Carole

[Scott W]

I'm sure it won't hurt, but I've only had to apply some heat to those hard to germinate seeds, like certain palm seeds I have tried. Otherwise, even when the temps outside are in the 70's the greenhouse temps I have seen can approach over 90. I would think that would be plenty of heat during the daytime. However, at night the temps may dip, so I could see where heating mats may come in handy during that time.

For my bamboo seed germination, I never used them with Moso, Strictus, or an unknown Multiplex that I acquired seed from when it flowered in St Augustine. If the seed is fresh I would expect at least a 70% germination rate with the methods I use.

A friend of mine uses similar methods, except he always starts his seed in the Jiffy pellets indoors and achieves a pretty good germination rate also. He's got some B. Tuldoides that's in flower and setting seed, with some new seedlings already growing. I'll get some pics next time I visit him.

[cngodles]

I would like to report that this plant has died. I just let it go without water too long, or I gave it too much water. That's something you should watch out for.

[stevelau1911]

I would like to report that this plant has died. I just let it go without water too long, or I gave it too much water. That's something you should watch out for.

How often did you water them? My indoor mosos look kinda like yours in the final pictures at around 2-3feet tall and it looks like it only takes them 2 days to dry out, but I've stuck to a regular watering schedule of 1 thorough watering once a week.

I have no idea if I'm giving the right amount of water.

[cngodles]

They just seemed to hit a wall. I never got runners with this species like I have with other ones. Just a massive rootball.

[cngodles]

I still have one or two of these alive though. I just keep watering them when they get dry. I'm not sure what they need to get the boost.

[stevelau1911]

Based on my observations for the summer, they gain lots of energy by staying under full sun and being well watered. Therefore, they need lots of sunlight in order to have enough energy for runners.

This can't be replicated during the winter indoors, so they look like they're on the decline by producing skinnier shoots that flop over. :(

I also can't afford to get the 1000watt HPS, or metal halide bulbs so the only thing I can do is avoid having the inside as much as possible, so I might move them back outside with an application of freeze-pruf some time in late March.

[Katbirdmine]

I am new here. . . but I was wondering why no one seems to be using the cheaper but effective florescent grow lights that are available. . .no special fixture. . .anyone will work. . .all you need is the green house bulbs which run about #29 apiece. 1 four-foot fixture will cover a 2 ft by 3 foot space