double flutes

[thogoul]

hi people
i presented myself in the "bamboo musikmakers worksite sub-forum" (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1840)
so let's start now with new topics.

I've seen, heard and played some kind of double flutes (there is a lots of)
and I'm actually working on it.
they are all end-blown some with simple or free reeds and they are either 2 melodic tubes (with holes) or one melodic and one drone (playing the same note)
we have (well, I know about!):
-my favorite one which I would love to play with:
the Satara also called pava from the Thar desert(india and pakistan)
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its an end blown pastoral double flute 2 types exists:
.Pava Iodi : melodic tube with 12 holes for 2 hands (!) and the drone playing the tonic
.Pava Dyodha: same melodic tube but the drone is playing one fifth down from the tonic
played with circular breathing ("nâksâsi in hindi), Satara is a magic people charming flute.I try to find some in rajastan few years ago but I didn't so as I know there are a few hindustani people in the forums, I call them so they can give me some good ressources on this incredible instrument.
-in pakistan there is also one called "Algoja" I've never heard but i know it's a five hole double melodic tubes
-in India the "Pungi" is the typical snake charming flute a double clarinet very similar to the egyptian Arghul the junction of the two tubes is made by a 'callebasse' in which you blow
-ancient european medieval one (i don't know so much about them ; there is a lot of old paintings and sculptures ; I'm not sure that people are still playing it.)
-egyptian "arghul" with free reeds very ancient instrument 2 tubes: one produce the drone and the other with seven holes the melody. I don't know the scale
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some of these oriental instrument are presented on this site:
www.zamanproduction.com/a_instvents.html
-the native 'mystic' double flute . end blown six holes with drone
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visit :
www.stroudflutes.com/double.html
-erik the flute maker is also making a double pennywhistle one is four holed and the other three ; playing in thirds
-in all asia there is a huge amount of double or multiple flutes especially these kind of free reeds mouth organs like the "Khene"(see picture)
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or mbuat
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but then, with mouth organs we reach a high level
but everything is possible with time and patience
and I guess these kinds of flutes might be really interesting to tune...

my idea is to work on a flute with one melodic tube and three drone tube making a chord (with holes gives the possibilitty of several chords using beewax to close some holes)

so I hope this makes you dream
now I come back to my workshop make more experience
and will tell you later the results
(i'll also send some pictures of my instruments)

may the Sacred Wind
blow in our inner flute

(7 notes/holes - 7 chakra...think about it!)

[sound world]

Thanks for your interesting posts!
You missed the Dvoynice,a double flute(well,it's a double fipple recorder really) from the former Yugoslavia.
But what I really wanted to say was that I used to make,for fun,a 'love flute' which was for two people to play together.
One length of bamboo with a central node,and two mouthholes,one on each side of the node,with fingerholes on both sides proceeding away from the centre in opposite directions.(I wish I had a picture which would be far simpler than this convoluted explanantion,but I don't!).
To play it,the two of you need to face each other and each blow into one mouthhole while each fingering one set of fingerholes.Harmony! well that was the idea anyway.I ended up making a version where you had to put your arms round the other person's head to reach the fingerholes,each of you fingering the other's flute,if you see what I mean.It caused a lot of hilarious moments,as you can imagine,as well as intimate ones...

[Mark Meckes]

Wow! That's all I have to say :cool:

Mariana and I designed a double embouchured flute, to play with our daughter, Violeta. Notice that the flute has an embouchure at both ends, so blowing from one stimulates the blowing of the baby.
It also has two toneholes to alter the tone.

http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/data/527/thumbs/afa1.jpg (http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1667&cat=500&ppuser=69) http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/data/527/thumbs/33a5.jpg (http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1666&cat=500&ppuser=69) http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/data/527/thumbs/fdd0.jpg (http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1665&cat=500&ppuser=69)
See Thread ... Bamboo flute - Double embouchure (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22)
by musical instrument maker Angel Sampedro del Río - Un Mundo de Bambú (http://www.unmundodebambu.com.ar)

(Note the links to the pics in this post of 2002 didn't work - the pics have been re-uploaded to the gallery ... MM)

[thogoul]

last week I made the two first one
I really enjoy making,tuning and playing them!
so I first make two recorder one on the third(major) of the other
example a 'Csharp' with a 'A' or a 'D' with a 'Fsharp'
then I tune the smallest one in a pentatonic (four holes) scale
and the longest with three holes going like this from the tonic:
2 tones-1 and half tone-1 tone-(then 1 and half tone goes to octave)
for example :
the 'C sharp' : Csharp-E-Fsharp-Gsharp-B
the 'A' one : A-Csharp-E-Fsharp
i don't know if they are tuned like the eriktheflutemaker's one
but i think it's the same model.
i promise i'll try to send picture and sound of them later
these are just the first one
i'm sure i have a lot of experiencing to do on this type of flutes!
to be continued...

[thogoul]

so these are the first double flutes I told you about.
http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/data/527/thumbs/3doubles.JPG (http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1673&cat=500&ppuser=1679)
those I told you with two melodic flutes sound incredibely magical

the C sharp and A
http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/data/527/thumbs/double1.JPG (http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1674&cat=500&ppuser=1679)

and the D/F sharp one
http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/data/527/thumbs/double2.JPG (http://www.bamboocraft.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1675&cat=500&ppuser=1679)
and the last one just a little pentatonic (four holes) D flute with a D drone is easier to play.
next step should be to put the tubes in a gourd or coconut in order to have just one mouthpiece for two or three flutes it also gives more confort for circular breath.
I start working on single reeds double flutes (same reeds as in bagpipes)
by the way someone can maybe explain why the vibration of the reed is changing while entering in a tube?(it goes too high and loose the right vibration 'regime' (don't know the word!))
I also have same problem with saxophones but I know it's due to the conicity (especially the relation between the cone real length and the theorical one which is hard to guess when you have different cylindrical pieces of bamboo together making kind of a cone...but this is another story )
I'll post sound later

[Mark Meckes]

Thanks again thogoul! I'm looking forward to hearing the music.

I can assist with resizing and uploading pics. (later, I'm at work).
You can use This Thread (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1926) which has been started for you at the Photo Help Forum to discuss your pics.

Cheers,
Mark

[thogoul]

here the first recording of the Csharp/A double flute
maybe quality is not so good but it's still transcendental!..
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the more I play on these flutes the richer I find the possibilities
I hope I can make soon a double flute easy for circular breath
because double flute needs double breathing!

[thogoul]

news coming soon
let me collect pictures and info
...

[llew]

here the first recording of the Csharp/A double flute
maybe quality is not so good but it's still transcendental!..
554
the more I play on these flutes the richer I find the possibilities
I hope I can make soon a double flute easy for circular breath
because double flute needs double breathing!

hi
I hope that soon you'll make sataras ans algozas flute with success.
They are realy cool. I'll have some real professional ones soon, and also a pair made in pvc, made by a french man. There is also another guy who make them come from Rajasthan. They are crafted by a musician there, and Stéphane regulary have some student models and real professional models too for sale.
I'll get mine from him in begining of may. I'll send you photos when i'll have them. You must know that the real sataras are a very problematic instrument to play in other countries which have not a dry climate. Because of the isometrie, they stop to play when the weather is not adequate. That's why Jérôme make them in pvc, it's because they can be used all the time then. And they have a good sound too.
If one day you make some in bamboo, i'll be interested to buy some from you too.
I love double flutes also so if you start to have too many of them, contact me, i could maybe buy something.

Here are some nice links to satara music videos
http://www.shaiprod.com/v2/facesb_double_flute.php
video1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9g9RWumXSw
video2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pylRuIBCGNE

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xito0_live-samoudji-1
http://www.shaiprod.com/v2/facesb_double_flute.php

Have a nice day and fun
llew

[Mark Meckes]

Thanks llew!
Wonderfully mesmerizing music.
You made my day :)

Cheers,
Mark

[mattreece]

hi
I hope that soon you'll make sataras ans algozas flute with success.
They are realy cool. I'll have some real professional ones soon, and also a pair made in pvc, made by a french man. There is also another guy who make them come from Rajasthan. They are crafted by a musician there, and Stéphane regulary have some student models and real professional models too for sale.
I'll get mine from him in begining of may. I'll send you photos when i'll have them. You must know that the real sataras are a very problematic instrument to play in other countries which have not a dry climate. Because of the isometrie, they stop to play when the weather is not adequate. That's why Jérôme make them in pvc, it's because they can be used all the time then. And they have a good sound too.
If one day you make some in bamboo, i'll be interested to buy some from you too.
I love double flutes also so if you start to have too many of them, contact me, i could maybe buy something.

Here are some nice links to satara music videos
http://www.shaiprod.com/v2/facesb_double_flute.php
video1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9g9RWumXSw
video2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pylRuIBCGNE

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xito0_live-samoudji-1
http://www.shaiprod.com/v2/facesb_double_flute.php

Have a nice day and fun
llew

Hi where could I get a plastic satara from? or instructions for making one that and an arghul?

[thogoul]

i've donne it!
after quite a lot of unsuccessfull experiments, i've built the first pair of bamboo sataras wich sounds really great.
tuned in c/f (drone gives c,d,e,f) I like them even more than the indian ones I bougt last summer.
the drone is realy stable on each note and stays on the fondamental bass note while the melodique flute can go up to 2 octaves !(which is quite rare on indian sataras).
One last good point is that the don't suffer on humidity or cold (made in winter -3C° in my workshop at dawn!)
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come and discover the double flutes I make :
http://thogoul.exen.fr/pages/flutes doubles.html

ask me for more explanations.

see you
thogoul

[abelito]

Wow, amazing! Congatulation Thogoul, your bamboo satara sounds great, could you please give more explanation about the satara's embouchures? I'm really interested in making them also, since I heard a rajasthani playing it in my car(fortunately, I had no radio equipment in my car at this time!:p).
I'm also interested in buying you one, that would be the occasion to meet you if you agree...and showing you my bamboo kaval.
Thanks and keep working!