Phyllostachys propinqua Plot H2 Byron, GA Misidentified as P. nuda

[Leptomorph]

Hi Mark-- Was wondering about the nuda ID mistake. Do you know when the correction was made that the plant in Plot H2 at Bryon was really propinqua?
Thanks,
Mike

[Mark Meckes]

Hi Mike,
Thanks for initiating this discussion!
Some notes about Phyllostachys propinqua Plot H2 (mistakenly listed as P. nuda)
- The bamboo collection had been planted there around - + 1980, as a result of the 1976 closure of the USDA Plant Introduction Station in Savannah Georgia.
This was primarily done to help ensure that the plants from the original introduction at Savannah were preserved.
Unfortunately from this time, and pretty much to the present date, funding for bamboo research had ceased. Minimal maintenance was funded indirectly as a part of other operations of the sprawling Southeastern Fruit and Tree Nut Research Station. (location of the Byron bamboo repository).
- Some of the plantings at Savannah had grown into mixed plots over the years, and this incorrect labeling of Plot H2 may have resulted from the propagules transplanted to Byron.
- Or maybe there was human error involved, I really don't know.
- I also don't know it had ever been mislabeled at any time in it's history at Savannah since being introduced by McClure in 1928
- When I first visited Plot H2 in 1993, it was quite overgrown, with little evidence plants were propagated and distributed from this plot.
I volunteered my services from March - July to help in the maintenance of the collection at the USDA Bamboo Germplasm in Byron, Georgia.
(One of these days I will go through my old photos from this time in search of a glimpse of Plot H2 in 1993)
Being very familiar with Phyllostachys nuda I doubted it's identity and surmised, with the help of McClure's Handbook on Phyllostachys species that it may be P. propinqua.
12 years later, in Feb. 2005 I revisited the collection, and Plot H2 was again quite overgrown.
It was affirmed that this plot H2 was indeed Phyllostachys propinqua, though the plot and records at that time had not been changed to reflect this.

According to the list of Plant Introduction numbers compiled by Kenneth Brennecke for Journal of the American Bamboo Society -1980 Vol 1 #1, there is only one PI# listing for P. propinqua - PI# 76649, so I've included this with info about this plant, with a (?).
Here is a link to pics of Phyllostachys propinqua - Plot H2 (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showgallery.php?si=Plot+H2+2005) at Gallery Bamboo Flora.

Phyllostachys propinqua - Plot H2 - Photos from Feb 2005 visit
http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/619/thumbs/PpropH2BGA050217-025.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=1796) http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/619/thumbs/PpropH2BGA050217-024.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=1795) http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/619/thumbs/PpropH2BGA050217-023.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=1794)

http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/619/thumbs/PpropH2BGA050217-022.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=1793) http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/619/thumbs/PpropH2BGA050217-021.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=1792) http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/619/thumbs/PpropH2BGA050217-020.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=1791)

http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/619/thumbs/PpropH2BGA050217-019.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=1790) http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/619/thumbs/PpropH2BGA050217-018.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=1789)

See ... Bamboo Species List: Bamboo Germplasm Repository, Byron Georgia, USA (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1483)

[Leptomorph]

Well, I'm amazed that the records, and at least the plot label, haven't been changed. During the last 25 years, propagules have surely been harvested from Byron and now continue to perpetuate the confusion of nuda identification! Heaven only knows where all these plants are by now. :eek:

Thanks very much for the info!

[Leptomorph]

I was wondering about the size of these plots. Do you know their dimensions? Also, are they lined with root barrier? I.e., how are the plants kept within their plots?

[Mark Meckes]

Agreed, though only minimal plants were distributed from Byron as most of the distribution occured from the Savannah Station.
The fact that the Byron Collection remained in obscurity for many years made for very interesting personal evaluation in grooming the overgrown virtually untouched plots, as every stick of bamboo from newest to the disintegrating original cane of the propagule was evident.

I believe the plots were each 16 ft X 24 ft, and had concrete barriers, but as the soil in the plots were apparently made level to the top of the barriers, a number of the plots had 'escaped'.

~ Mark

[Leptomorph]

I guess I should feel lucky then that the "nuda" I recently purchased, from a large nursery, indeed came from Byron (probably many many years ago). So I now ostensively have a P. propinqua, or who knows?! Next week I might have something else. Well, Propinqua is not as hardy as I'd wanted, but at least it's a bamboo. It's almost comical. I've tried for 2 years now to find a genuine P. nuda to purchase. :mad: Sure, I realize that bamboo is difficult to identify, but to me it seems that the bamboo nursery industry should have a better handle on it. Or maybe that's the whole fun of purchasing & growing bamboo. First you need to become an expert, and only then can you grow what you really wanted in the first place. You need to pretend you're Floyd McClure back in the day when he roamed China taking notes, distinguishing one species from another. I mean, years ago, when I planted marigolds it never was so challenging. I just bought a pack of seeds and amazingly marigolds is what grew. ;)

Anyway, on a lighter note, I forgot to mention about the great photos you uploaded in the Bamboo Flora area. That is an excellent idea, and actually it goes a long way toward helping correct bamboo plant identification and labeling. Thanks for the interesting info!

[Mark Meckes]

Hi Mike,
I can feel for your frustration over this issue of not getting the correct species that you ordered, as your growing climate requires the hardiest bamboo species to survive, and even so, it takes a number of years to get a bamboo to establish itself under these conditions.

I never took a propagule of Plot H2 back to Pennsylvania so I can't provide any personal comments as to it's hardiness.

This misidentification is puzzling because I don't think P. nuda was in the Savannah Collection back then. Recollections from my visit to Savannah in Feb 1993, the P. nuda plot was planted fairly recently ( sometime in the 1990's - will try and verify)

Phyllostachys Phyllostachys nuda Feb, 2005 Bamboo Farm and Coastal Gardens - Savannah Georgia
http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/511/thumbs/1PhnudaSGA4-4_050218-196.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=931) http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/511/thumbs/1PhnudaSGA4-4_050218-197.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=930) http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/511/thumbs/1PhnudaSGA4-4_050218-195.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=929)

I procured my Phyllostachys nuda in 1989 via the late Robert Lester, an avid and very knowledgeable bamboo enthusiast, whose father collected it through George M. Darrow Bio (http://www.daylilygarden.com/george/), a principal horticulturalist, (1927 - 1957) at the USDA Beltsville Maryland Agricultural Research Center.

It is possible that P. nuda was introduced through this station.
(McClures Phyllostachys handbook ... Introduced by Frank N. Meyer - 1908)

P. propinqua was introduced by McClure in 1928

Data from GRIN Taxonomy for Phyllostachys propinqua (http://www.ars-grin.gov/~sbmljw/cgi-bin/taxon.pl?28183)

Another visible difference between these two species
P. nuda shoots early - mid season ; P. propinqua shoots mid - late season.

~ Mark

[Leptomorph]

Does anyone know where you can purchase the Darrow strain of P. nuda? ... Reply in Bamboo Sources Wanted (http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1625)

Apparently from Mike at the Byron lab, the plot labeled as P. nuda at the Byron germplasm station is really a strain of propinqua that was grown in Savannah that never made it to bamboo nurseries. It was thought to have been lost. It was one of the fastest growing bamboo at Savannah.

[Mark Meckes]

From dictionary.com ...
propinquity \pruh-PING-kwih-tee\, noun:
1. Nearness in place; neighborhood; proximity.
2. Nearness in time.
3. Nearness of blood; kindred; affinity.

Now for what reason did McClure name Phyllostachys propinqua?

In his handbook he says ...
" This species is most apt to be confused with P. meyeri from which it can be distinguished by the absence of the narrow line of white hairs that is always found at the base of the culm sheath scar of P. meyeri."

See ...
Phyllostachys meyeri - culm sheath with line of white hairs
http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/565/thumbs/PmeyeriSkvTX050412-057.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=1190&cat=565)

If P. propinqua in Plot H2 is PI#76649, McClure collected it in 1928
" from the wilds along West River, near Wuchow, Kwangsi Province, China" - Zone??

In your location Leptomorph, (Wisconsin), "nearness" of P. propinqua is only acceptable if it is near in cold-hardiness to P. nuda, which I'm doubtful, as it's listed to -10F / -23C.

Alas, I never tried growing P. propinqua in Pennsylvania.

There's another species listed in the ABS source list ...
P. propinqua 'Beijing' with a hardiness of -15F / -26C

No idea of the history and performance of this species ...

~ Mark

[Leptomorph]

David Andrews told me 'Beijing' came from Dr. James W. Waddick in 1987. The plant originated from Beijing. Dave said he thinks it might really be a form of P. flexuosa.

Anyway, I do have 'Beijing' planted since spring and it is doing great so far. Will be interesting to see how it performs this winter.

[Mark Meckes]

Hi leptomorph,
Phyllostachys flexuosa has a distinct maroon colored, more elongated chisel-brush shaped ligule as shown in this pic.

Phyllostachys flexuosa - April 5, 2004, Buckholts Texas USA
http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/data/603/thumbs/Pflex040405BhTX-208.jpg See photo (http://www.bamboocraft.net/bamboo/showphoto.php?photo=2538)

New shoots are a darker maroon when they emerge, and in a young grove they will often emerge at a slightly outward angle ... a young P. flexuosa planting can become noticeably bushy because of this.

[bamboogirl]

hello..no offence but how can you be sure that you have P.propinqua ? As its taken all these years to discover this as haveing been mislabled .I personaly would wonder.I wonder since it was suppose to been lost yet they had it..If it is the plants that came bye way of germany then i ask is it the same or different? or is it P.p."Beijing" ? i have no idea nor do i care.i am only useing logic

now i can safely say I DO HAVE P.propinqua now that its been revieled that the P.nuda i dug up in H2 last june in byron,ge. is not P nuda. apprently i got super lucky as no one wanted any of it thinking it was common P.nuda..It is growing on my mtn top now..as soon as i can get my camera working ill take some pictures once the new snow gone.

chele


I guess I should feel lucky then that the "nuda" I recently purchased, from a large nursery, indeed came from Byron (probably many many years ago). So I now ostensively have a P. propinqua, or who knows?! Next week I might have something else. Well, Propinqua is not as hardy as I'd wanted, but at least it's a bamboo. It's almost comical. I've tried for 2 years now to find a genuine P. nuda to purchase. :mad: Sure, I realize that bamboo is difficult to identify, but to me it seems that the bamboo nursery industry should have a better handle on it. Or maybe that's the whole fun of purchasing & growing bamboo. First you need to become an expert, and only then can you grow what you really wanted in the first place. You need to pretend you're Floyd McClure back in the day when he roamed China taking notes, distinguishing one species from another. I mean, years ago, when I planted marigolds it never was so challenging. I just bought a pack of seeds and amazingly marigolds is what grew. ;)

Anyway, on a lighter note, I forgot to mention about the great photos you uploaded in the Bamboo Flora area. That is an excellent idea, and actually it goes a long way toward helping correct bamboo plant identification and labeling. Thanks for the interesting info!